laches- 第4部分

likely　to　become　rash；　and　his　character　will　be　only　more　notorious；　or　if



he　be　brave；　and　fail　ever　so　little；　other　men　will　be　on　the　watch；　and



he　will　be　greatly　traduced；　for　there　is　a　jealousy　of　such　pretenders；



and　unless　a　man　be　pre…eminent　in　valour；　he　cannot　help　being　ridiculous；



if　he　says　that　he　has　this　sort　of　skill。　　Such　is　my　judgment；



Lysimachus；　of　the　desirableness　of　this　art；　but；　as　I　said　at　first；　ask



Socrates；　and　do　not　let　him　go　until　he　has　given　you　his　opinion　of　the



matter。







LYSIMACHUS：　　I　am　going　to　ask　this　favour　of　you；　Socrates；　as　is　the　more



necessary　because　the　two　councillors　disagree；　and　some　one　is　in　a　manner



still　needed　who　will　decide　between　them。　　Had　they　agreed；　no　arbiter



would　have　been　required。　　But　as　Laches　has　voted　one　way　and　Nicias



another；　I　should　like　to　hear　with　which　of　our　two　friends　you　agree。







SOCRATES：　　What；　Lysimachus；　are　you　going　to　accept　the　opinion　of　the



majority？







LYSIMACHUS：　　Why；　yes；　Socrates；　what　else　am　I　to　do？







SOCRATES：　　And　would　you　do　so　too；　Melesias？　　If　you　were　deliberating



about　the　gymnastic　training　of　your　son；　would　you　follow　the　advice　of



the　majority　of　us；　or　the　opinion　of　the　one　who　had　been　trained　and



exercised　under　a　skilful　master？







MELESIAS：　　The　latter；　Socrates；　as　would　surely　be　reasonable。







SOCRATES：　　His　one　vote　would　be　worth　more　than　the　vote　of　all　us　four？







MELESIAS：　　Certainly。







SOCRATES：　　And　for　this　reason；　as　I　imagine；because　a　good　decision　is



based　on　knowledge　and　not　on　numbers？







MELESIAS：　　To　be　sure。







SOCRATES：　　Must　we　not　then　first　of　all　ask；　whether　there　is　any　one　of



us　who　has　knowledge　of　that　about　which　we　are　deliberating？　　If　there　is；



let　us　take　his　advice；　though　he　be　one　only；　and　not　mind　the　rest；　if



there　is　not；　let　us　seek　further　counsel。　　Is　this　a　slight　matter　about



which　you　and　Lysimachus　are　deliberating？　　Are　you　not　risking　the



greatest　of　your　possessions？　　For　children　are　your　riches；　and　upon　their



turning　out　well　or　ill　depends　the　whole　order　of　their　father's　house。







MELESIAS：　　That　is　true。







SOCRATES：　　Great　care；　then；　is　required　in　this　matter？







MELESIAS：　　Certainly。







SOCRATES：　　Suppose；　as　I　was　just　now　saying；　that　we　were　considering；　or



wanting　to　consider；　who　was　the　best　trainer。　　Should　we　not　select　him



who　knew　and　had　practised　the　art；　and　had　the　best　teachers？







MELESIAS：　　I　think　that　we　should。







SOCRATES：　　But　would　there　not　arise　a　prior　question　about　the　nature　of



the　art　of　which　we　want　to　find　the　masters？







MELESIAS：　　I　do　not　understand。







SOCRATES：　　Let　me　try　to　make　my　meaning　plainer　then。　　I　do　not　think　that



we　have　as　yet　decided　what　that　is　about　which　we　are　consulting；　when　we



ask　which　of　us　is　or　is　not　skilled　in　the　art；　and　has　or　has　not　had　a



teacher　of　the　art。







NICIAS：　　Why；　Socrates；　is　not　the　question　whether　young　men　ought　or



ought　not　to　learn　the　art　of　fighting　in　armour？







SOCRATES：　　Yes；　Nicias；　but　there　is　also　a　prior　question；　which　I　may



illustrate　in　this　way：　　When　a　person　considers　about　applying　a　medicine



to　the　eyes；　would　you　say　that　he　is　consulting　about　the　medicine　or



about　the　eyes？







NICIAS：　　About　the　eyes。







SOCRATES：　　And　when　he　considers　whether　he　shall　set　a　bridle　on　a　horse



and　at　what　time；　he　is　thinking　of　the　horse　and　not　of　the　bridle？







NICIAS：　　True。







SOCRATES：　　And　in　a　word；　when　he　considers　anything　for　the　sake　of



another　thing；　he　thinks　of　the　end　and　not　of　the　means？







NICIAS：　　Certainly。







SOCRATES：　　And　when　you　call　in　an　adviser；　you　should　see　whether　he　too





is　skilful　in　the　accomplishment　of　the　end　which　you　have　in　view？







NICIAS：　　Most　true。







SOCRATES：　　And　at　present　we　have　in　view　some　knowledge；　of　which　the　end



is　the　soul　of　youth？







NICIAS：　　Yes。







SOCRATES：　　And　we　are　enquiring；　Which　of　us　is　skilful　or　successful　in



the　treatment　of　the　soul；　and　which　of　us　has　had　good　teachers？







LACHES：　　Well　but；　Socrates；　did　you　never　observe　that　some　persons；　who



have　had　no　teachers；　are　more　skilful　than　those　who　have；　in　some　things？







SOCRATES：　　Yes；　Laches；　I　have　observed　that；　but　you　would　not　be　very



willing　to　trust　them　if　they　only　professed　to　be　masters　of　their　art；



unless　they　could　show　some　proof　of　their　skill　or　excellence　in　one　or



more　works。







LACHES：　　That　is　true。







SOCRATES：　　And　therefore；　Laches　and　Nicias；　as　Lysimachus　and　Melesias；　in



their　anxiety　to　improve　the　minds　of　their　sons；　have　asked　our　advice



about　them；　we　too　should　tell　them　who　our　teachers　were；　if　we　say　that



we　have　had　any；　and　prove　them　to　be　in　the　first　place　men　of　merit　and



experienced　trainers　of　the　minds　of　youth　and　also　to　have　been　really　our



teachers。　　Or　if　any　of　us　says　that　he　has　no　teacher；　but　that　he　has



works　of　his　own　to　show；　then　he　should　point　out　to　them　what　Athenians



or　strangers；　bond　or　free；　he　is　generally　acknowledged　to　have　improved。　



But　if　he　can　show　neither　teachers　nor　works；　then　he　should　tell　them　to



look　out　for　others；　and　not　run　the　risk　of　spoiling　the　children　of



friends；　and　thereby　incurring　the　most　formidable　accusation　which　can　be



brought　against　any　one　by　those　nearest　to　him。　　As　for　myself；　Lysimachus



and　Melesias；　I　am　the　first　to　confess　that　I　have　never　had　a　teacher　of



the　art　of　virtue；　although　I　have　always　from　my　earliest　youth　desired　to



have　one。　　But　I　am　too　poor　to　give　money　to　the　Sophists；　who　are　the



only　professors　of　moral　improvement；　and　to　this　day　I　have　never　been



able　to　discover　the　art　myself；　though　I　should　not　be　surprised　if　Nicias



or　Laches　may　have　discovered　or　learned　it；　for　they　are　far　wealthier



than　I　am；　and　may　therefore　have　learnt　of　others。　　And　they　are　older



too；　so　that　they　have　had　more　time　to　make　the　discovery。　　And　I　really



believe　that　they　are　able　to　educate　a　man；　for　unless　they　had　been



confident　in　their　own　knowledge；　they　would　never　have　spoken　thus



decidedly　of　the　pursuits　which　are　advantageous　or　hurtful　to　a　young　man。　



I　repose　confidence　in　both　of　them；　but　I　am　surprised　to　find　that　they



differ　from　one　another。　　And　therefore；　Lysimachus；　as　Laches　suggested



that　you　should　detain　me；　and　not　let　me　go　until　I　answered；　I　in　turn



earnestly　beseech　and　advise　you　to　detain　Laches　and　Nicias；　and　question



them。　　I　would　have　you　say　to　them：　　Socrates　avers　that　he　has　no



knowledge　of　the　matterhe　is　unable　to　decide　which　of　you　speaks　truly；



neither　discoverer　nor　student　is　he　of　anything　of　the　kind。　　But　you；



Laches　and　Nicias；　should　each　of　you　tell　us　who　is　the　most　skilful



educator　whom　you　have　ever　known；　and　whether　you　invented　the　art



yourselves；　or　learned　of　another；　and　if　you　learned；　who　were　your



respective　teachers；　and　who　were　their　brothers　in　the　art；　and　then；　if



you　are　too　much　occupied　in　politics　to　teach　us　yourselves；　let　us　go　to



them；　and　present　them　with　gifts；　or　make　interest　with　them；　or　both；　in



the　hope　that　they　may　be　induced　to　take　charge　of　our　children　and　of



yours；　and　then　they　will　not　grow　up　inferior；　and　disgrace　their



ancestors。　　But　if　you　are　yourselves　original　discoverers　in　that　field；



give　us　some　proof　of　your　skill。　　Who　are　they　who；　having　been　inferior



persons；　have　become　under　your　care　good　and　noble？　　For　if　this　is　your



first　attempt　at　education；　there　is　a　danger　that　you　may　be　trying　the



experiment；　not　on　the　'vile　corpus'　of　a　Carian　slave；　but　on　your　own



sons；　or　the　sons　of　your　friend；　and；　as　the　proverb　says；　'break　the



large　vessel　in　learning　to　make　pots。'　　Tell　us　then；　what　qualities　you



claim　or　do　not　claim。　　Make　them　tell　you　that；　Lysimachus；　and　do　not　let



them　off。







LYSIMACHUS：　　I　very　much　approve　of　the　words　of　Socrates；　my　friends；　but



you；　Nicias　and　Laches；　must　determine　whether　you　will　be　questioned；　and



give　an　explanation　about　matters　of　this　sort。　　Assuredly；　I　and　Melesias



would　be　greatly　pleased　to　hear　you　answer　the　questions　which　Socrates



asks；　if　you　will：　　for　I　began　by　saying　that　we　took　you　into　our



counsels　because　we　thought　that　you　would　have　attended　to　the　subject；