alcibiades ii- 第1部分

Alcibiades　II

by　Platonic　Imitator

Translated　by　Benjamin　Jowett






APPENDIX　II。



The　two　dialogues　which　are　translated　in　the　second　appendix　are　not

mentioned　by　Aristotle；　or　by　any　early　authority；　and　have　no　claim　to　be

ascribed　to　Plato。　　They　are　examples　of　Platonic　dialogues　to　be　assigned

probably　to　the　second　or　third　generation　after　Plato；　when　his　writings

were　well　known　at　Athens　and　Alexandria。　　They　exhibit　considerable

originality；　and　are　remarkable　for　containing　several　thoughts　of　the　sort

which　we　suppose　to　be　modern　rather　than　ancient；　and　which　therefore　have

a　peculiar　interest　for　us。　　The　Second　Alcibiades　shows　that　the

difficulties　about　prayer　which　have　perplexed　Christian　theologians　were

not　unknown　among　the　followers　of　Plato。　　The　Eryxias　was　doubted　by　the

ancients　themselves：　　yet　it　may　claim　the　distinction　of　being；　among　all

Greek　or　Roman　writings；　the　one　which　anticipates　in　the　most　striking

manner　the　modern　science　of　political　economy　and　gives　an　abstract　form

to　some　of　its　principal　doctrines。



For　the　translation　of　these　two　dialogues　I　am　indebted　to　my　friend　and

secretary；　Mr。　Knight。



That　the　Dialogue　which　goes　by　the　name　of　the　Second　Alcibiades　is　a

genuine　writing　of　Plato　will　not　be　maintained　by　any　modern　critic；　and

was　hardly　believed　by　the　ancients　themselves。　　The　dialectic　is　poor　and

weak。　　There　is　no　power　over　language；　or　beauty　of　style；　and　there　is　a

certain　abruptness　and　agroikia　in　the　conversation；　which　is　very　un…

Platonic。　　The　best　passage　is　probably　that　about　the　poets：the　remark

that　the　poet；　who　is　of　a　reserved　disposition；　is　uncommonly　difficult　to

understand；　and　the　ridiculous　interpretation　of　Homer；　are　entirely　in　the

spirit　of　Plato　（compare　Protag；　Ion；　Apol。）。　　The　characters　are　ill…

drawn。　　Socrates　assumes　the　'superior　person'　and　preaches　too　much；　while

Alcibiades　is　stupid　and　heavy…in…hand。　　There　are　traces　of　Stoic

influence　in　the　general　tone　and　phraseology　of　the　Dialogue　（compare　opos

melesei　tis。。。kaka：　　oti　pas　aphron　mainetai）：　　and　the　writer　seems　to

have　been　acquainted　with　the　'Laws'　of　Plato　（compare　Laws）。　　An　incident

from　the　Symposium　is　rather　clumsily　introduced；　and　two　somewhat

hackneyed　quotations　（Symp。；　Gorg。）　recur。　　The　reference　to　the　death　of

Archelaus　as　having　occurred　'quite　lately'　is　only　a　fiction；　probably

suggested　by　the　Gorgias；　where　the　story　of　Archelaus　is　told；　and　a

similar　phrase　occurs；ta　gar　echthes　kai　proen　gegonota　tauta；　k。t。l。　

There　are　several　passages　which　are　either　corrupt　or　extremely　ill…

expressed。　　But　there　is　a　modern　interest　in　the　subject　of　the　dialogue；

and　it　is　a　good　example　of　a　short　spurious　work；　which　may　be　attributed

to　the　second　or　third　century　before　Christ。





ALCIBIADES　II



by



Platonic　Imitator　（see　Appendix　II　above）



Translated　by　Benjamin　Jowett





PERSONS　OF　THE　DIALOGUE：　　Socrates　and　Alcibiades。





SOCRATES：　　Are　you　going；　Alcibiades；　to　offer　prayer　to　Zeus？



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes；　Socrates；　I　am。



SOCRATES：　　you　seem　to　be　troubled　and　to　cast　your　eyes　on　the　ground；　as

though　you　were　thinking　about　something。



ALCIBIADES：　　Of　what　do　you　suppose　that　I　am　thinking？



SOCRATES：　　Of　the　greatest　of　all　things；　as　I　believe。　　Tell　me；　do　you

not　suppose　that　the　Gods　sometimes　partly　grant　and　partly　reject　the

requests　which　we　make　in　public　and　private；　and　favour　some　persons　and

not　others？



ALCIBIADES：　　Certainly。



SOCRATES：　　Do　you　not　imagine；　then；　that　a　man　ought　to　be　very　careful；

lest　perchance　without　knowing　it　he　implore　great　evils　for　himself；

deeming　that　he　is　asking　for　good；　especially　if　the　Gods　are　in　the　mood

to　grant　whatever　he　may　request？　　There　is　the　story　of　Oedipus；　for

instance；　who　prayed　that　his　children　might　divide　their　inheritance

between　them　by　the　sword：　　he　did　not；　as　he　might　have　done；　beg　that　his

present　evils　might　be　averted；　but　called　down　new　ones。　　And　was　not　his

prayer　accomplished；　and　did　not　many　and　terrible　evils　thence　arise；　upon

which　I　need　not　dilate？



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes；　Socrates；　but　you　are　speaking　of　a　madman：　　surely　you

do　not　think　that　any　one　in　his　senses　would　venture　to　make　such　a

prayer？



SOCRATES：　　Madness；　then；　you　consider　to　be　the　opposite　of　discretion？



ALCIBIADES：　　Of　course。



SOCRATES：　　And　some　men　seem　to　you　to　be　discreet；　and　others　the

contrary？



ALCIBIADES：　　They　do。



SOCRATES：　　Well；　then；　let　us　discuss　who　these　are。　　We　acknowledge　that

some　are　discreet；　some　foolish；　and　that　some　are　mad？



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　again；　there　are　some　who　are　in　health？



ALCIBIADES：　　There　are。



SOCRATES：　　While　others　are　ailing？



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　they　are　not　the　same？



ALCIBIADES：　　Certainly　not。



SOCRATES：　　Nor　are　there　any　who　are　in　neither　state？



ALCIBIADES：　　No。



SOCRATES：　　A　man　must　either　be　sick　or　be　well？



ALCIBIADES：　　That　is　my　opinion。



SOCRATES：　　Very　good：　　and　do　you　think　the　same　about　discretion　and　want

of　discretion？



ALCIBIADES：　　How　do　you　mean？



SOCRATES：　　Do　you　believe　that　a　man　must　be　either　in　or　out　of　his

senses；　or　is　there　some　third　or　intermediate　condition；　in　which　he　is

neither　one　nor　the　other？



ALCIBIADES：　　Decidedly　not。



SOCRATES：　　He　must　be　either　sane　or　insane？



ALCIBIADES：　　So　I　suppose。



SOCRATES：　　Did　you　not　acknowledge　that　madness　was　the　opposite　of

discretion？



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　that　there　is　no　third　or　middle　term　between　discretion　and

indiscretion？



ALCIBIADES：　　True。



SOCRATES：　　And　there　cannot　be　two　opposites　to　one　thing？



ALCIBIADES：　　There　cannot。



SOCRATES：　　Then　madness　and　want　of　sense　are　the　same？



ALCIBIADES：　　That　appears　to　be　the　case。



SOCRATES：　　We　shall　be　in　the　right；　therefore；　Alcibiades；　if　we　say　that

all　who　are　senseless　are　mad。　　For　example；　if　among　persons　of　your　own

age　or　older　than　yourself　there　are　some　who　are　senseless；as　there

certainly　are；they　are　mad。　　For　tell　me；　by　heaven；　do　you　not　think

that　in　the　city　the　wise　are　few；　while　the　foolish；　whom　you　call　mad；

are　many？



ALCIBIADES：　　I　do。



SOCRATES：　　But　how　could　we　live　in　safety　with　so　many　crazy　people？　

Should　we　not　long　since　have　paid　the　penalty　at　their　hands；　and　have

been　struck　and　beaten　and　endured　every　other　form　of　ill…usage　which

madmen　are　wont　to　inflict？　　Consider；　my　dear　friend：　　may　it　not　be　quite

otherwise？



ALCIBIADES：　　Why；　Socrates；　how　is　that　possible？　　I　must　have　been

mistaken。



SOCRATES：　　So　it　seems　to　me。　　But　perhaps　we　may　consider　the　matter

thus：



ALCIBIADES：　　How？



SOCRATES：　　I　will　tell　you。　　We　think　that　some　are　sick；　do　we　not？



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　must　every　sick　person　either　have　the　gout；　or　be　in　a

fever；　or　suffer　from　ophthalmia？　　Or　do　you　believe　that　a　man　may　labour

under　some　other　disease；　even　although　he　has　none　of　these　complaints？　

Surely；　they　are　not　the　only　maladies　which　exist？



ALCIBIADES：　　Certainly　not。



SOCRATES：　　And　is　every　kind　of　ophthalmia　a　disease？



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　every　disease　ophthalmia？



ALCIBIADES：　　Surely　not。　　But　I　scarcely　understand　what　I　mean　myself。



SOCRATES：　　Perhaps；　if　you　give　me　your　best　attention；　'two　of　us'　looking

together；　we　may　find　what　we　seek。



ALCIBIADES：　　I　am　attending；　Socrates；　to　the　best　of　my　power。



SOCRATES：　　We　are　agreed；　then；　that　every　form　of　ophthalmia　is　a　disease；

but　not　every　disease　ophthalmia？



ALCIBIADES：　　We　are。



SOCRATES：　　And　so　far　we　seem　to　be　right。　　For　every　one　who　suffers　from

a　fever　is　sick；　but　the　sick；　I　conceive；　do　not　all　have　fever　or　gout　or

ophthalmia；　although　each　of　these　is　a　disease；　which；　according　to　those

whom　we　call　physicians；　may　require　a　different　treatment。　　They　are　not

all　alike；　nor　do　they　produce　the　same　result；　but　each　has　its　own

effect；　and　yet　they　are　all　diseases。　　May　we　not　take　an　illustration

from　the　artizans？



ALCIBIADES：　　Certainly。



SOCRATES：　　There　are　cobblers　and　carpenters　and　sculptors　and　others　of

all　sorts　and　kinds；　whom　we　need　not　stop　to　enumerate。　　All　have　their

distinct　employments　and　all　are　workmen；　although　they　are　not　all　of　them

cobblers　or　carpenters　or　sculptors。



ALCIBIADES：　　No；　indeed。



SOCRATES：　　And　in　like　manner　men　differ　in　regard　to　want　of　sense。　　Those

who　are　most　out　of　their　wits　we　call　'madmen；'　while　we　term　those　who

are　less　far　gone　'stupid'　or　'idiotic；'　or；　if　we　prefer　gentler　language；

describe　them　as　'romantic'　or　'simple…minded；'　or；　again；　as　'innocent'　or

'inexperienced'