alcibiades i- 第4部分

keep　to　yourself；　whereby　you　will　know　that　I　have　always　had　my　eye　on

you。　　Suppose　that　at　this　moment　some　God　came　to　you　and　said：　

Alcibiades；　will　you　live　as　you　are；　or　die　in　an　instant　if　you　are

forbidden　to　make　any　further　acquisition？I　verily　believe　that　you　would

choose　death。　　And　I　will　tell　you　the　hope　in　which　you　are　at　present

living：　　Before　many　days　have　elapsed；　you　think　that　you　will　come　before

the　Athenian　assembly；　and　will　prove　to　them　that　you　are　more　worthy　of

honour　than　Pericles；　or　any　other　man　that　ever　lived；　and　having　proved

this；　you　will　have　the　greatest　power　in　the　state。　　When　you　have　gained

the　greatest　power　among　us；　you　will　go　on　to　other　Hellenic　states；　and

not　only　to　Hellenes；　but　to　all　the　barbarians　who　inhabit　the　same

continent　with　us。　　And　if　the　God　were　then　to　say　to　you　again：　　Here　in

Europe　is　to　be　your　seat　of　empire；　and　you　must　not　cross　over　into　Asia

or　meddle　with　Asiatic　affairs；　I　do　not　believe　that　you　would　choose　to

live　upon　these　terms；　but　the　world；　as　I　may　say；　must　be　filled　with

your　power　and　nameno　man　less　than　Cyrus　and　Xerxes　is　of　any　account

with　you。　　Such　I　know　to　be　your　hopesI　am　not　guessing　onlyand　very

likely　you；　who　know　that　I　am　speaking　the　truth；　will　reply；　Well；

Socrates；　but　what　have　my　hopes　to　do　with　the　explanation　which　you

promised　of　your　unwillingness　to　leave　me？　　And　that　is　what　I　am　now

going　to　tell　you；　sweet　son　of　Cleinias　and　Dinomache。　　The　explanation

is；　that　all　these　designs　of　yours　cannot　be　accomplished　by　you　without

my　help；　so　great　is　the　power　which　I　believe　myself　to　have　over　you　and

your　concerns；　and　this　I　conceive　to　be　the　reason　why　the　God　has

hitherto　forbidden　me　to　converse　with　you；　and　I　have　been　long　expecting

his　permission。　　For；　as　you　hope　to　prove　your　own　great　value　to　the

state；　and　having　proved　it；　to　attain　at　once　to　absolute　power；　so　do　I

indulge　a　hope　that　I　shall　be　the　supreme　power　over　you；　if　I　am　able　to

prove　my　own　great　value　to　you；　and　to　show　you　that　neither　guardian；　nor

kinsman；　nor　any　one　is　able　to　deliver　into　your　hands　the　power　which　you

desire；　but　I　only；　God　being　my　helper。　　When　you　were　young　（compare

Symp。）　and　your　hopes　were　not　yet　matured；　I　should　have　wasted　my　time；

and　therefore；　as　I　conceive；　the　God　forbade　me　to　converse　with　you；　but

now；　having　his　permission；　I　will　speak；　for　now　you　will　listen　to　me。



ALCIBIADES：　　Your　silence；　Socrates；　was　always　a　surprise　to　me。　　I　never

could　understand　why　you　followed　me　about；　and　now　that　you　have　begun　to

speak　again；　I　am　still　more　amazed。　　Whether　I　think　all　this　or　not；　is　a

matter　about　which　you　seem　to　have　already　made　up　your　mind；　and

therefore　my　denial　will　have　no　effect　upon　you。　　But　granting；　if　I　must；

that　you　have　perfectly　divined　my　purposes；　why　is　your　assistance

necessary　to　the　attainment　of　them？　　Can　you　tell　me　why？



SOCRATES：　　You　want　to　know　whether　I　can　make　a　long　speech；　such　as　you

are　in　the　habit　of　hearing；　but　that　is　not　my　way。　　I　think；　however；

that　I　can　prove　to　you　the　truth　of　what　I　am　saying；　if　you　will　grant　me

one　little　favour。



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes；　if　the　favour　which　you　mean　be　not　a　troublesome　one。



SOCRATES：　　Will　you　be　troubled　at　having　questions　to　answer？



ALCIBIADES：　　Not　at　all。



SOCRATES：　　Then　please　to　answer。



ALCIBIADES：　　Ask　me。



SOCRATES：　　Have　you　not　the　intention　which　I　attribute　to　you？



ALCIBIADES：　　I　will　grant　anything　you　like；　in　the　hope　of　hearing　what

more　you　have　to　say。



SOCRATES：　　You　do；　then；　mean；　as　I　was　saying；　to　come　forward　in　a　little

while　in　the　character　of　an　adviser　of　the　Athenians？　　And　suppose　that

when　you　are　ascending　the　bema；　I　pull　you　by　the　sleeve　and　say；

Alcibiades；　you　are　getting　up　to　advise　the　Atheniansdo　you　know　the

matter　about　which　they　are　going　to　deliberate；　better　than　they？How

would　you　answer？



ALCIBIADES：　　I　should　reply；　that　I　was　going　to　advise　them　about　a　matter

which　I　do　know　better　than　they。



SOCRATES：　　Then　you　are　a　good　adviser　about　the　things　which　you　know？



ALCIBIADES：　　Certainly。



SOCRATES：　　And　do　you　know　anything　but　what　you　have　learned　of　others；　or

found　out　yourself？



ALCIBIADES：　　That　is　all。



SOCRATES：　　And　would　you　have　ever　learned　or　discovered　anything；　if　you

had　not　been　willing　either　to　learn　of　others　or　to　examine　yourself？



ALCIBIADES：　　I　should　not。



SOCRATES：　　And　would　you　have　been　willing　to　learn　or　to　examine　what　you

supposed　that　you　knew？



ALCIBIADES：　　Certainly　not。



SOCRATES：　　Then　there　was　a　time　when　you　thought　that　you　did　not　know

what　you　are　now　supposed　to　know？



ALCIBIADES：　　Certainly。



SOCRATES：　　I　think　that　I　know　tolerably　well　the　extent　of　your

acquirements；　and　you　must　tell　me　if　I　forget　any　of　them：　　according　to

my　recollection；　you　learned　the　arts　of　writing；　of　playing　on　the　lyre；

and　of　wrestling；　the　flute　you　never　would　learn；　this　is　the　sum　of　your

accomplishments；　unless　there　were　some　which　you　acquired　in　secret；　and　I

think　that　secrecy　was　hardly　possible；　as　you　could　not　have　come　out　of

your　door；　either　by　day　or　night；　without　my　seeing　you。



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes；　that　was　the　whole　of　my　schooling。



SOCRATES：　　And　are　you　going　to　get　up　in　the　Athenian　assembly；　and　give

them　advice　about　writing？



ALCIBIADES：　　No；　indeed。



SOCRATES：　　Or　about　the　touch　of　the　lyre？



ALCIBIADES：　　Certainly　not。



SOCRATES：　　And　they　are　not　in　the　habit　of　deliberating　about　wrestling；

in　the　assembly？



ALCIBIADES：　　Hardly。



SOCRATES：　　Then　what　are　the　deliberations　in　which　you　propose　to　advise

them？　　Surely　not　about　building？



ALCIBIADES：　　No。



SOCRATES：　　For　the　builder　will　advise　better　than　you　will　about　that？



ALCIBIADES：　　He　will。



SOCRATES：　　Nor　about　divination？



ALCIBIADES：　　No。



SOCRATES：　　About　that　again　the　diviner　will　advise　better　than　you　will？



ALCIBIADES：　　True。



SOCRATES：　　Whether　he　be　little　or　great；　good　or　ill…looking；　noble　or

ignoblemakes　no　difference。



ALCIBIADES：　　Certainly　not。



SOCRATES：　　A　man　is　a　good　adviser　about　anything；　not　because　he　has

riches；　but　because　he　has　knowledge？



ALCIBIADES：　　Assuredly。



SOCRATES：　　Whether　their　counsellor　is　rich　or　poor；　is　not　a　matter　which

will　make　any　difference　to　the　Athenians　when　they　are　deliberating　about

the　health　of　the　citizens；　they　only　require　that　he　should　be　a

physician。



ALCIBIADES：　　Of　course。



SOCRATES：　　Then　what　will　be　the　subject　of　deliberation　about　which　you

will　be　justified　in　getting　up　and　advising　them？



ALCIBIADES：　　About　their　own　concerns；　Socrates。



SOCRATES：　　You　mean　about　shipbuilding；　for　example；　when　the　question　is

what　sort　of　ships　they　ought　to　build？



ALCIBIADES：　　No；　I　should　not　advise　them　about　that。



SOCRATES：　　I　suppose；　because　you　do　not　understand　shipbuilding：is　that

the　reason？



ALCIBIADES：　　It　is。



SOCRATES：　　Then　about　what　concerns　of　theirs　will　you　advise　them？



ALCIBIADES：　　About　war；　Socrates；　or　about　peace；　or　about　any　other

concerns　of　the　state。



SOCRATES：　　You　mean；　when　they　deliberate　with　whom　they　ought　to　make

peace；　and　with　whom　they　ought　to　go　to　war；　and　in　what　manner？



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　they　ought　to　go　to　war　with　those　against　whom　it　is　better

to　go　to　war？



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　when　it　is　better？



ALCIBIADES：　　Certainly。



SOCRATES：　　And　for　as　long　a　time　as　is　better？



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　But　suppose　the　Athenians　to　deliberate　with　whom　they　ought　to

close　in　wrestling；　and　whom　they　should　grasp　by　the　hand；　would　you；　or

the　master　of　gymnastics；　be　a　better　adviser　of　them？



ALCIBIADES：　　Clearly；　the　master　of　gymnastics。



SOCRATES：　　And　can　you　tell　me　on　what　grounds　the　master　of　gymnastics

would　decide；　with　whom　they　ought　or　ought　not　to　close；　and　when　and　how？

To　take　an　instance：　　Would　he　not　say　that　they　should　wrestle　with　those

against　whom　it　is　best　to　wrestle？



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　as　much　as　is　best？



ALCIBIADES：　　Certainly。



SOCRATES：　　And　at　such　times　as　are　best？



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　Again；　you　sometimes　accompany　the　lyre　with　the　song　and　dance？



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　When　it　is　well　to　do　so？



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　as　much　as　is　well？



ALCIBIADES：　　Just　so。



SOCRATES：　　And　as　you　speak　of　an　excellence　or　art　of　the　best　in

wrestling；　and　of　an　excellence　in　playing　the　lyre；　I　wish　you　would　tell

me　what　this　latter　is；the　excellence　of　wrestling　I　call　gymnastic；　and

I　want　to　know　what　you　call　the　other。